Verse:Mwail/Erno-Kawenic languages: Difference between revisions

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'''Thensarian''' (''thēṃsaraquhanquhus/-milacus'', gen. ''-quhanquhasus/-milacī'', Rencadian: ''Thengsornkhwong'') is a classical Ramanuric language and one of two superstrate languages of [[Rencadian]]. It originates from Tālsim. It is inspired by Latin, Sanskrit, and Ancient Greek, and it is a parody of fantasy languages inspired by Latin and Greek, such as High Valyrian.
{{list subpages}}
== Diachronics ==
=== Consonants ===
* p' -> PEK mˁ
* t' -> PEK tˁ
* k' -> PEK q
* PIr l -> PEK ć
* PIr y/g/hiatus breaker -> PEK y
* PIr k -> PEK ç
* PIr ng, r -> lengthens preceding vowel if before C, PEK 0 otherwise
* PIr s -> PEK χ
* PIr b/w -> PEK β
* PIr d -> ð (r in retroflexing environments)
* final nasal -> {{ng}}
* Non-final nasals stay put (n in PIr /rVn/ retroflexes)
* p, t stay put (t in PIr /rVt/ retroflexes)


Make into a Hellenized Latin gib ~ Greek gib ~ Sanskrit gib dialect continuum?
=== Vowels ===
* Θεισαραπάμφος (gen. Θεισαραπάμφοσος or Θεισαραπάμφεσος), Θεισαραμιλακός
PIr ă -> ə
* ''dhēṃsaragan{{cda}}ghah{{cdb}}/-milakah{{cdb}}''


Lots of reduplication, especially in verbs
urV, orV, arV -> orV, arV, erV -> oV aV eV


Should sound whimsical or English magic spell-like
ira iro iru -> iwa iwo iwu


{{angbr|ae ai ao au}} = /eː ai oː au/
Same-vowel weakening rule: e.g. PI sumur is treated as if it were sămur
 
== Family tree ==
* Erno-Kawenic
** [[Verse:Mwail/Kawenic languages|Kawenic]]
** [[Verse:Mwail/Ernic languages|Ernic]]
 
== Phonology ==
Proto-Erno-Kawenic is characterized by unusual sound changes from Proto-Irenesian.
=== Consonants ===
{| class="wikitable
|-
!rowspan=2|
!colspan=2| Labial
!rowspan=2| Denti-alveolar
!rowspan=2| Retroflex
!rowspan=2| Palatal
!rowspan=2| Uvular
|-
!|plain
!|pharyngealized
|-
!|Nasal
|| '''m''' /m/ || '''mˁ''' /mˁ/ || '''n''' /n̪/ || '''ṇ''' /ɳ/ || ||
|-
!|Stop
|| '''p''' /p/ || '''pˁ''' /pˁ/ || '''t''' /t̪/ || '''ṭ''' /ʈ/ || '''ć''' /tɕ/ || '''q''' /q/
|-
!|Fricative
|| || || || '''ṣ''' /ʂ/ || '''ç''' /ç/ || '''x''' /χ/
|-
!|Continuant
|| '''β''' /β/ || || '''δ''' /ð/ || '''r''' /ɻ/ || '''y''' /j/ ||
|}


== Todo ==
=== Vowels ===
Sanskrit sandhi and compounding
Short i e a o u ə


== Lexicon ==
Long ī ē ā ō ū
* bēl '10'
* Candiarhanchus - a philosopher (nod to Kandiaronk)
* Place names: Chuschus, Hummus, Chalguxus, Xactagmiuṃ, Thaṃsujūx, Naegmiuṃ, Cāmphangy, Lādiōgy
* jux, juquhis - fort
* Vannajux -> Wannayuk
* ēlantālum = to finish
* ganchus 'wide'
* crēsy 'happiness'
* vēchus 'star'
* mae = is
* Ylarmuscus ''a tyrannical king of the Rēncādum''
* imbrōr, imbrōnis 'nobility'
* aechum = mist
* pōsungy = ice cream
* ichylum = to ripen, to cook (trans)
* dallylum = to run
* bēvulum = to learn
* ōraculum 'to predict/prophesy'
* ''dāvanavisvāyākayaṃ'' in the Sanskrit-like dialect
* Hambānus ''a god''
* diṃsuṃ 'meal'
* Dylath → Dalāthiuṃ
* Ulthar → Vṛthāriuṃ
* Hlanith → Chlanithiuṃ
* Ilarnek → Ilarnēciuṃ
* Mnar → Imnāriuṃ
* Sarnath → Sarnathiuṃ
* Celephais → Cēlēphavīsiuṃ
* Kadath → Cadathiuṃ
* vṝcaluṃ = to abandon
* Pravynus Palanchius -> Praween Balang
* ''Margaery'' (female given name) -> Mornkhairee
* ''vṛpāluṃ'' = to slay
* ''vṛthāx'' = mind
* Names with syllabic r: Axṛcas, Phṛsus, Bṛxānas, Squṛnis, Bacṛnceps, Maccṛgitus, [[Nṛtrāṇya|Nṛtrāniā]], Ṛcquhēdā, [[Rttirri|Ṛttirry]], Vṝbā, Pētṛtry
* ''mṛdāluṃ'' (''vulgar'') 'to fuck'
* Manx (a name) → Rencadian -mong
* Marx (a surname or surname element meaning 'expert') → Rencadian -mak
** Caralamarx (a surname) → Karalamak
** Vr{{cdb}}pamarx, Vr{{cdb}}thācamarx
* Barthagangus (Phatthakhong) ''a surname''
* Barthanaculus -> Phatthanakul
* Bartharavancus -> Phattharawong
* Barthavidaeus -> Phatthawithai
* Barthavanxālus -> Phatthawongsarn
* ''Utrēmi-phasōlā'' = ''a religious text/mantra''
* ''ut-/ud-''
* ''quā-'' 're-, over-'
* ''ysus'' '1'
* ''quē'' '2'
* ''blāna'' '3'
* ''vanthēs'' '4'
* ''lythṛ'' '5'
* ''chaen'' '6'
* ''jēlan'' '7'
* ''xāman'' '8'
* ''vastaṃ'' '9'
* ''ōbās'' '10'
* ''bṝdā'' = hundred
* ''quacuṃquasit'' = however
* Xanāx ''a unisex name''
* Xanasvācā ''a name''
* Xatrēpus ''a name''
* Bandaeuṃ (Rencadian ''Phonthai'') = the capital of the Thensarian empire
* ''haothispēlluṃ'' = sorcery (from ''haothim'' 'ritual' + ''pēlluṃ'' 'fruit; output, implementation, work')
* ''spūbiao'' = facetiously
* ''spūbispēlluṃ'' = facetiousness (''spůbis'' 'mirth' + ''pēlluṃ'')
* ''hūbispūbiu1m'' = ''fake magic spell''
* ''baxaphus'' (<- gweķsobhos): borrowing
* ''rhaxū'' 'love'
* ''asiṃsymōs'' 'hate'
* ''cambar'' 'room'
* Kambarys (Rencadian ''Kamphareet'') ''a nobility-only name, meaning 'room-ful; memorialized'''
* ''gladys'' 'god'
* Durys (a name)
* Chalguxus ''a city''
* ''quēdratiṃ'' 'hour'
* ''arclys'' 'horse' (Lithuanian easter egg)
* Karys (a name)


''Rhaxuvē/-xū hīn asiṃsymave/-mō ēlir quaquhanix'' 'We are speaking of love and hate'
Nasal iñ eñ añ oñ uñ əñ


-ao for adverbs
Coloring effects


== Phonology ==
== Grammar ==
=== Consonants ===
I have to have a solid idea of how nouns work in PEK; I'm probably gonna cliticize classifiers after nouns
* ''qu quh'' /k{{w}} k{{w}}{{h}}/
* ''g c/k ch'' /g k k{{h}}/
* ''d t th n'' /d t t{{h}} n/
* ''b p ph m'' /b p p{{asp}} m/
* ''j r rh l v s h'' /j r r{{v-}} l w s{{ret}} h/
* ''x'' = /ks{{ret}}/


=== Vowels ===
So the classifier is almost a suffix, maybe fully a suffix by PEK
''a ā i y u ū ē ō ae ao ṛ ṝ ṃ'' /ɐ a{{long}} ɪ i{{long}} ʊ u{{long}} e{{long}} o{{long}} ae ao r{{syll}} r{{syll}}ː (nasalization + length)/


== Orthography ==
That may affect the Ernish I have now, which I'm willing to accept. In that case Ernish should probably choose one form, probably the PEK genitive plural for most nouns.
Thensarian uses a variant of the Brahmi script.


Brahmi breathy letters are used for ph th ch quh; qu quh written as kv ghv; x uses the kS ligature; t th d n l s uses T DH D N L S.
Ensuring that Quququqquq genitives always end in a vowel is easy


== Morphology ==
Genitive should be -some vowel + (ng) in PI
IE clone; I'm not gonna work too hard on making Thensarian grammar original, as the purpose of Thensarian is just to be a loan source for Rencadian.


Todo: research PIE ablaut
Some nouns, like proper nouns, family terms and body parts, shouldn't have classifiers
=== Nouns ===
Usually, the nominative singular case markers are -us/-is/-us/-ys masc, -ā/-y/-ū fem, -uṃ/-iṃ/-uṃ/-yṃ neuter, -r/-ō collective. ''-rys'' is a suffix deriving names from ''-r'' nouns, reserved for the Thensarian nobility (sometimes ''-ry'' is used as a feminine counterpart of ''-rys'').


''Jabṛvaciṃ vam{{cdb}}vṝpāx.'' = 'We shall slay the Jabberwocky.'
=== Classifiers ===
{| class="wikitable"
!| PEK classifier || Domain || Etymology
|-
|| sg. ''=nuć'', pl. ''=çe''
|| generic inanimate
|-
|| sg. ''=pće'', pl. ''=mut''
|| inanimate (pejorative)
|-
|| sg. ''=hoi'', pl. ''=au''
|| human
|-
|| sg. ''=qβe'', pl. ''=poyap''
|| human (pejorative)
|-
|| ''=upi''
|| generic animal
|-
|| ''=tiβo''
|| livestock
|-
|| ''=toyu''
|| animate (pejorative)
|-
|| ''=mˁō''
|| animate (pejorative)
|-
|| ''=pˁat''
|| flat sheets
|-
|| ''=əmço''
|| flat sheets (pejorative)
|-
|| ''=çeoñ''
|| trees and bushes; streams, rivers
|-
|| ''=uox''
|| herbaceous plants
|-
|| ''=epçi''
|| any plant (pejorative)
|-
|| ''=βuδ''
|| flowers, bunches of fruit
|-
|| ''=tia''
|| paths, ways
|-
|| ''=uhiç''
|| long thin objects
|-
|| ''=uyop''
|| fruits, spheres
|-
|| ''=tuć''
|| circles, rings
|-
|| ''=ex''
|| buildings
|-
|| ''=mˁəδañ''
|| vehicles
|-
|| ''=xəβuq''
|| man-made things (pejorative)
|-
|| ''=ćep''
|| marks, like written characters, wounds, ...
|-
|| ''=uñqe''
|| important places and events
|}


=== Adjectives ===
=== Sandbox ===
''-ao'' forms adverbs
PI urim 'rose apple' (bare) -> PEK oiŋ 'apple (is-a form); Apple (name form)' -> Ernish oi 'ibid.'
=== Verbs ===
* Infinitive -lum: -alum, -ālum, -ylum, -ūlum, -y{{mac}}lum
* Personal endings: 1sg -r, 2sg -t, 3sg -m, 1pl.ex, -ivy, 1pl.in -x, 2pl -phas, 3pl -phiam


Verb stems mainly use reduplication and Sanskrit-style ablaut to mark tense.
PI urim uop -> PEK oiŋ=uyop 'the apple' -> Ernish oinguzop 'apple (singular)'


=== Reduplication sandbox ===
PI **urim bawăd -> PEK oiŋ bawəd -> oimbaud 'apples (plural)'
(Grassmann's law operates on reduplicants.)
==== Inflectional ====
* Ca- reduplicant for the progressive aspect
:: ''quhanix'' 'we speak'; ''quaquhanix'' 'we are speaking'
* CalaC- reduplicant for the past tense
:: ''qualaquhanix'' 'we spoke'
* CanC- reduplicant for the irrealis
:: ''quanquhānix'' 'we shall speak; let us speak'


==== Derivational ====
PI tiroŋ 'head' -> PEK tiwo: -> Ernish tiwo
* ''quhan-alum'' = to speak -> ''quhan<quh>us'' (s-stem neuter) = speech
(body parts don't take classifiers)

Latest revision as of 12:02, 29 June 2025

In this versespace:

Verse talk:

Diachronics

Consonants

  • p' -> PEK mˁ
  • t' -> PEK tˁ
  • k' -> PEK q
  • PIr l -> PEK ć
  • PIr y/g/hiatus breaker -> PEK y
  • PIr k -> PEK ç
  • PIr ng, r -> lengthens preceding vowel if before C, PEK 0 otherwise
  • PIr s -> PEK χ
  • PIr b/w -> PEK β
  • PIr d -> ð (r in retroflexing environments)
  • final nasal -> ŋ
  • Non-final nasals stay put (n in PIr /rVn/ retroflexes)
  • p, t stay put (t in PIr /rVt/ retroflexes)

Vowels

PIr ă -> ə

urV, orV, arV -> orV, arV, erV -> oV aV eV

ira iro iru -> iwa iwo iwu

Same-vowel weakening rule: e.g. PI sumur is treated as if it were sămur

Family tree

Phonology

Proto-Erno-Kawenic is characterized by unusual sound changes from Proto-Irenesian.

Consonants

Labial Denti-alveolar Retroflex Palatal Uvular
plain pharyngealized
Nasal m /m/ mˁ /mˁ/ n /n̪/ ṇ /ɳ/
Stop p /p/ pˁ /pˁ/ t /t̪/ ṭ /ʈ/ ć /tɕ/ q /q/
Fricative ṣ /ʂ/ ç /ç/ x /χ/
Continuant β /β/ δ /ð/ r /ɻ/ y /j/

Vowels

Short i e a o u ə

Long ī ē ā ō ū

Nasal iñ eñ añ oñ uñ əñ

Coloring effects

Grammar

I have to have a solid idea of how nouns work in PEK; I'm probably gonna cliticize classifiers after nouns

So the classifier is almost a suffix, maybe fully a suffix by PEK

That may affect the Ernish I have now, which I'm willing to accept. In that case Ernish should probably choose one form, probably the PEK genitive plural for most nouns.

Ensuring that Quququqquq genitives always end in a vowel is easy

Genitive should be -some vowel + (ng) in PI

Some nouns, like proper nouns, family terms and body parts, shouldn't have classifiers

Classifiers

PEK classifier Domain Etymology
sg. =nuć, pl. =çe generic inanimate
sg. =pće, pl. =mut inanimate (pejorative)
sg. =hoi, pl. =au human
sg. =qβe, pl. =poyap human (pejorative)
=upi generic animal
=tiβo livestock
=toyu animate (pejorative)
=mˁō animate (pejorative)
=pˁat flat sheets
=əmço flat sheets (pejorative)
=çeoñ trees and bushes; streams, rivers
=uox herbaceous plants
=epçi any plant (pejorative)
=βuδ flowers, bunches of fruit
=tia paths, ways
=uhiç long thin objects
=uyop fruits, spheres
=tuć circles, rings
=ex buildings
=mˁəδañ vehicles
=xəβuq man-made things (pejorative)
=ćep marks, like written characters, wounds, ...
=uñqe important places and events

Sandbox

PI urim 'rose apple' (bare) -> PEK oiŋ 'apple (is-a form); Apple (name form)' -> Ernish oi 'ibid.'

PI urim uop -> PEK oiŋ=uyop 'the apple' -> Ernish oinguzop 'apple (singular)'

PI **urim bawăd -> PEK oiŋ bawəd -> oimbaud 'apples (plural)'

PI tiroŋ 'head' -> PEK tiwo: -> Ernish tiwo (body parts don't take classifiers)

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